Incident VOLO EK-231 Dubai -Washington (USA)

[JT8D]

E poi, dopo un rto a quella velocita’, sbaglio o 30 minuti cooldown e’ un po’ poco? Non conosco bene le spec ma anche questo mi sembra un po’ fuori linea…..

Non si conoscono tutti i dettagli riguardo pesi, temperature raggiunte dai freni, ecc... però anche a me 30 minuti sembrano decisamente pochini per un High Speed RTO come questa, con un 777 e con quelle velocità.

Paolo

[noone]

Incident: Emirates B773 at Dubai on Jan 9th 2022, rejected takeoff without clearance due to crossing aircraft
https://avherald.com/h?article=4f30b5c8&opt=0

Interessante a mio avviso che lo stesso crew che ha fato l'errore e l'RTO si sia poi anche fatto il resto del volo...

[air.surfer]

Perché?

[noone]

Mah da noi quando è successa una cosa simile ( un aereo di AG ha cercato di allinearsi mentre uno dei nostri decollava) il duty pilot ha spedito l'equipaggio a casa, e credo abbia senso. Il rischio che passi le successive ore di volo a rimuginare sull'accaduto invece di concentrarti su quello che stai facendo è alto.

[air.surfer]

Bo. Avranno parlato per con la compagnia e si saranno accordati sul da farsi. Operativamente, se stavano nei limiti di FTL e nei limiti dell’aereo, non vedo problemi a ripartire. Poi tanto, per inc..rsi l’equipaggio hanno sempre tempo.

[noone]

Dipende come è andata, ma a livello di HF un pensierino prima di partire me lo farei e non a caso aziende serie se lo fanno... (,In alcuni OMA è perfino obbligatorio rientrare allo stand dopo un high speed rejected take off, anche se freni, carburante e ftl sono ancora ok)...

[Ayrton]

a 400 ft RA in decollo si attiva il VNAV, che si tramuta in VNAV SPD con una spinta di THR comandata dal FMC.

..se il FD pitch mode è in TOGA. Altrimenti non ha motivo di passare in VNAV.

beh ma appena tiri su il FD in preflight... va in TOGA il pitch mode...

[air.surfer]

Non sempre, evidentemente.

[airplane]

.

>Remember,
Sul Forum MD.80, l’ho già detto altre volte:


I PILOTI SARANNO SEMPRE I PILOTI.
Non si può nemmeno immaginare un aereo carico di passeggeri
con 1 solo pilota in cabina e,
tantomeno in volo senza piloti in cabina.


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Link
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=48858&start=35#p1005898


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[airplane]

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>Riporto 2 messaggi Postati da LAMPO
qui sotto:
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AirGek ha scritto:
Su 737 TOGA in decollo ti da la spinta che hai scelto, derate e/o assumed (ATM) che sia.

Lampo Ha Scritto:
Di solito al primo TOGA inserisci la spinta precalcolata, con un successivo TOGA la spinta massima.

----------------------------------------------

AirGek ha scritto:
Questo vale in go around, prima pressione hai spinta ridotta (1000-2000ft/min) e seconda pressione hai
spinta piena. In decollo il TOGA puoi premerlo tutte le volte che vuoi sempre la spinta selezionata ti darà.

Lampo Ha Scritto:
Giuro che non mi ricordo se funziona così anche su MD80 e B777,
ho cancellato quasi tutto dalla mente.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Voglio Sottolineare solo questo:

Mi è capitato di visionare (su un vecchio 3d) questi 2 post scritto da LAMPO,
e deve dire, che a me pare che la memoria di lampo, ricordasse bene come
funzionava “la cosa” sul B777.

Ps.
>Ovviamente,
"se la memoria non mi tradisce"

-----------------------------------------

Link:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=47605#p980713
Link:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=47605#p980718


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[noone]

[SuperMau]

Airplane,

se esprimere le tue opinioni in italiano ti risulta difficile, usa pure un'altra lingua, che c'e' google translate per noi poveri mortali.
Perche' io il 95% dei tuoi post non li capisco (eh si sai, sono un po' arretrato.....)

[Maxx]

usa pure un'altra lingua, che c'e' google translate per noi poveri mortali.

Proporrei l'olandese, poi ci pensi tu!

[airplane]

.

...Sempre Vero

> LA LINGUA BATTE DOVE IL DENTE DUOLE…
.

[…] There are a relatively small number of people who get to fly 350-ton airplanes in their career.

The number of people who train on those airplanes is smaller. An even smaller number of those trainers
get to train on 350-ton airplanes at a number of airlines around the planet.

That last group can tell you a few stories (if they are willing to be candid) that would reveal that quite often
you have 300 innocent passengers who are entrusting their lives to flightdeck occupants who are utterly
bereft of any skill, awareness or initiative, and are visibly uneasy and uncertain at every phase of flight.

A personal sim favorite is to clear two of these occupants for a visual approach. There will be a two minute
flurry of FMC programming and then the approach will be flown from downwind all the way to the threshold without
anyone once looking out the window until they are forced to at 50feet when the pitch bar commands level flight.

The threat goes way beyond any degradation in manual flying skills as these never existed in the first place
- there are any number of active widebody pilots who are temperamentally unsuited to the chair.. […]



.

[airplane]

.

I PILOTI SARANNO SEMPRE I PILOTI.

Non si può nemmeno immaginare un aereo carico di passeggeri
con 1 solo pilota in cabina,
e tantomeno in volo senza piloti in cabina.
.

-----------------------------------------------------

[…] An even smaller number of those trainers get to train on 350-ton airplanes at a number of
airlines around the planet.

That last group can tell you a few stories (if they are willing to be candid) that would reveal
that quite often you have 300 innocent passengers who are entrusting their lives to flightdeck occupants
who are utterly bereft of any skill, awareness or initiative, and are visibly uneasy and
uncertain at every phase of flight.

-------------------------------------------------------


Ps.
A me sembra che tra i 2 scritti, riportati sopra,
ci sia tanta correlazione da “mettere i brividi”.

.

[airplane]

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>INCIDENTE B777 EK231

"I FATTI PARLANO DA SOLI”


“Does the Emirati Arabi Uniti regulator truly believe that the FD "commands" the pilot?

Or is the FD one of many tools that the pilot uses to conduct a safe flight?”


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[airplane]

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>RIPORTO IL POST INIZIALE DI QUESTO 3d,

"PER RIMARCARE LA PONDERATEZZA ESPRESSA DAL (ASPRO) PILOTA”

----------------------------------------------------


I still can't believe that any crew would continue accelerating on the runway 50+ kts past Vr without having rotated or RTO ed well beforehand, so I don't understand what could have gone wrong,

but some general thoughts:

a) Today's pilots don't always go from flight school to simple turbo-prop to simple jet, then big jet; building valuable experience on the way. Thus, actual flying is not being cemented before they are faced with very comprehensive automation.
b) Prospective pilot employees now have to pass ridiculous time-limited computer tests and puzzles and psychometric tests which tell nothing about actual piloting ability.
c) A safe flying culture is one where problems and mistakes, including minor ones, are used as a learning tool for the greater good. Lessons from mistakes have been learned many times over, and some are sadly quite literally written in blood.

---------------

On A) : Having said that, even a 10hr pilot of a PA-28 knows that you pull the stick back at the appropriate airspeed to take-off !

on B) : I personally think it is high-time that HR kept their noses out of pilot recruitment. Having to pass 20 maths questions in 12 minutes for example, or do computer puzzles and word games, proves nothing about a pilot's ability to pilot, or their situational awareness, or their experience of bad weather flying.
We seem to be going backwards in aviation safety. We have seen an aircraft take off with both engine cowls unsecured, because nobody did a walk-around.
We have seen botch ed go-arounds.
We have seen a "pilot" hold full back-stick up at FL 3xx for an extended period of time.
Something fundamental appears to be being missed by airlines and HR - the fundamental ability to fly and be a pilot.

on C) : Airlines which try to suppress mistakes and errors by passive aggression, (e.g. interviews or bullying for going outside SOPs or for taking the AP out), are treading a very dangerous path. Overall safety will not improve because under that sort of regime pilots will not step outside the automation or report incidences, and therefore lessons will not be learned. [...]

.

[Ayrton]

io non capisco quello che scrivi

[airplane]

io non capisco quello che scrivi

>Ayrton, io invece voglio dirti che leggendo una Tua risposta (leggendo anche "tra le righe")
per me era appropriata, al contrario (per così dire) era stata "ritenuta Inappropriata".

Se ben ricordo, per capire che la tua risposta era appropriata al quesito, partivo dal fatto
che Tu iniziavi con un A/C cold &dark quindi alla fine la tua risposta era appropriata.

ps.
"Per ora ricordo solo questo".

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>Ayrton, se hai voglia vedi il link qui sotto:

qui c’è molto da masticare
Link
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=48434&start=700#p1008812

Ps.
Da non credere Questo thread
è sempre sui carboni ardenti.

-






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[Maxx]

Non è questione di carboni ardenti. Hai un modo di esprimerti (liberissimo e ci mancherebbe, ognuno ha il proprio) a mio avviso oscuro, contorto, supponente. Se non lo capisco io poco male, anche se siamo in generiche e non in area tecnica. Se non lo capiscono dei piloti come Ayrton o dei tecnici come Mau, forse c'è qualcosa di vero.

[airplane]

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Forse c’è del vero,
...”NON E’ PIU’ COME ERA UNA VOLTA”

--------------------------------------------------------

[…] ...in recent years we have had:
- A crash at SFO because nobody did anything about the speed dying away.
- A crew with mode confusion who stayed on the runway well past Vr and then flew very very low, barely missing buildings, instead of climbing away.
- A pilot who held full backstick at FL390, fatally stalling the aircraft.
- A crew who forgot to select TOGA when trying to fly a baulked landing.
- A crew who continued when they were so hot and high, they forgot to lower the gear, scraped the engines along the runway, got airborne again and fatally crashed.
- A crew who landed so fast and deep that they went off the end of the runway.
- A crew who after landing tried to use the yoke as a steering wheel to stay on the centre-line instead of the rudder, during a crosswind landing, and went off the side of the runway.

All of the above were basic piloting errors and none of the above were owing to engine fires or control problems and were not difficult or complicated problems. But if I and my colleagues had done any of these things in our initial airline Sim test, we would not have been employed by the airline - it would have been "thanks, but PFO".

The last real piloting events I can think of were the B777 into EGLL with double engine failure at very short finals owing to blocked fuel filters - saved by the quick thinking of the crew who raised the flaps one stage and just managed to get over the fence.
Another was the QANTAS A380 with an exploded engine and dozens of ECAM warnings.
And of course the Cactus double engine failure, landing on the Hudson river. All fantastic piloting and surely what we expect from pilots, (and would hope to achieve ourselves), are they not?

So I am honestly not bashing pilots as such; but just wondering what is happening to aviation?

We now hear about this Startle Effect, which now seems to be used as an excuse when pilots make basic flying mistakes.
Are we not selected as pilots exactly because we can deal with problems in a calm and controlled manner?
How are some pilots now getting so badly out of shape with standard flying and standard manoeuvres?
Is it the training, the selection, something else? […]


Ps.
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[airplane]

.
Ps.

...We now hear about this "STARTLE EFFECT", which now seems to be used as
an excuse when pilots make basic flying mistakes.

...Are we "Training" as pilots exactly because we can deal with problems
in a calm and controlled manner?

...How are some Pilots now getting so badly out of shape with standard flying
and standard manoeuvres?



>...Where are we going !?

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[airplane]

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Se ben ricordo,
...QUALCUNO HA SCRITTO:


I wanna "feel" it (the plane), and I want my pilots (I teach) to "feel" it.

...It is "touch" that separates "pilots" from mechanical technicians
up there in the front of the plane.

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