il brasile ha scelto: rafale!

[richelieu]

Come la vedono dagli USA .....

A proposito di riforma delle forze armate svizzere .....
..... Christina Mackenzie ne parla nel blog "Ares" di "Aviation Week & Space Technology" .....

Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

Swiss Argue Over Numbers

Posted by Christina Mackenzie at 10/5/2010 11:13 AM CDT


The Swiss populist party, confusingly called the Union for the Democratic Centre (UDC), says the Swiss army should employ at least 120,000 active soldiers instead of the 80,000 recommended by the Federal Council, Switzerland's parliament, in a report published last Friday. That report also says defense spending should be capped at 4.4 billion Swiss francs ($4.6 billion).

Toni Brunner, the UDC leader, complains that this is the Alpine nation's third restructuring of its armed forces in less than 10 years and “the report on the armed forces is headed in completely the wrong direction.” The UDC believes that Switzerland's compulsory national service and militia system should be maintained at all costs. They say that 120,000 is the minimum number necessary to be able to mobilize quickly and that of these 40% should be combat troops.

The Federal Council thinks differently. In its report it says the 80,000 should be allocated as follows: 22,000 combat troops, 35,000 to support civilian missions, 22,000 for basic missions (whatever that means) and 1,000 to be deployed abroad... which is odd given that the Swiss army has had no combat troops involved in a foreign war of any kind since 1815! It does have a special commando unit, DRA10 (Détachement de reconnaissance d'armée 10), whose main function is to rescue Swiss citizens trapped overseas. And, yes, it did send a total of 271 troops abroad in the 2005-09 timeframe of which 220 were in Kosovo and 27 in Bosnia. The remaining 24 were deployed elsewhere in groups of under 20 troops.

Daniel Möckli and Valentin Misteli are the co-authors of an interesting 3-page policy paper (translated into English from the German by Christopher Findlay) entitled “Swiss Military Operations Abroad: Challenges and Options” published by the Center for Security Studies, Zurich. You can download a pdf version here. (*)

Switzerland has a population of 7,733,000. If my arithmetic is correct that means the UDC wants 1 soldier for every 64 inhabitants. France has a population of 64,700,000 and an army of more or less 224,600 (not counting the gendarmerie). That makes one soldier for every 288 inhabitants, just to give you a comparison.

For those of you interested in a bit of history, the last conflict within Swiss borders was in 1847 and that was a civil war between Catholics and Protestants over a special treaty for the Catholic cantons. It lasted less than a month and caused fewer than 100 casualties.

(*) PDF .....
http://www.sta.ethz.ch/CSS-Analysis-in- ... ruary-2010

[FAS]

pensiamo le strade cittadine senza vigili urbani o le autostrade senza polizia stradale.....non dobbiamo pensare che dei velivoli militare servano solo a fare la guerra

[MarcoGT]

pensiamo le strade cittadine senza vigili urbani o le autostrade senza polizia stradale.....non dobbiamo pensare che dei velivoli militare servano solo a fare la guerra

Ecco questo secondo me è un discorso da sviluppare.
Sento gente dire: "ok, ma cosa ce ne facciamo dei "caccia"? Servono per la guerra ed è una cosa negativa blablabla"

Non si pensa alla sicurezza aerea, difesa ecc ecc

[richelieu]

..... Per gli europei di calcio in Svizzera due anni fa un collega si era scandalizzato per il fatto che per la sicurezza della manifestazione c'erano, costantemente, due pattuglie di Hornet (25 tonn a pieno carico) completamenti armati, in servizio .....

Qualcosa di analogo è avvenuto anche da noi, allorchè aerei da caccia dell'Aeronautica Militare hanno effettuato la protezione aerea in occasione dei Giochi Olimpici Invernali di Torino nel 2006 .....

http://www.forzearmate.org/forzearmate/ ... igther.php

..... e vi hanno dato anche una mano in occasione degli europei di calcio nel 2008 nell'ambito di accordi di reciprocità stipulati nel 2006, proprio in occasione delle Olimpiadi .....

http://www.forzearmate.org/sideweb/2008 ... 09-132.php

[richelieu]

Luiz Inácio out ..... Dilma in .....

F-X2 ..... l'è tutto da rifare?

DATE: 19/01/11
SOURCE: Flight International

Brazil to review F-X2 fighter requirement, says Roussef

Less than three weeks into her tenure as Brazil's newly elected president, Dilma Roussef has indicated that the Brazilian air force's F-X2 fighter procurement programme will be placed on hold and undergo a review.

Sources in Brasília suggest the programme review could allow the entry of other contenders beyond previously shortlisted finalists the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale and Saab Gripen NG, with the Eurofighter Typhoon and Sukhoi Su-35BM as prime candidates.

However, Brazilian air force sources say no further contestants will be examined, because this could delay considerably a decision that is already 10 years behind schedule.


© Boeing

"We do not intend to start from scratch," says Brazilian defence minister Nelson Jobim, who adds that the expected review intends to focus on technology transfer issues - a key aspect of the F-X2 programme. The process is not expected to last more than four months, he says, with a selection to be announced by late June. An initial 36 aircraft are being sought.

The Brazilian air force shortlisted the Gripen NG, Rafale F3 and Super Hornet in late 2009, but in September the same year, President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, Roussef's predecessor, publicly stated his preference for the Rafale.

Initially the air force's inclination was for the Gripen NG, but after receiving best and final offers, the Super Hornet is believed to have become its first choice.

The defence ministry opted to re-evaluate its selection parameters, placing far more emphasis on technology transfer and commercial offsets. Delays experienced since 2009 have been attributed mainly to fears that the US government will hinder the transfer of US technology contained in Boeing's and Saab's proposals, despite repeated assurances to the contrary from Washington.

US Senator John McCain visited Roussef in early January to support Boeing's possible sale of Super Hornets.

Dassault notes that its Rafale does not contain systems potentially subject to US restrictions, and it is able to transfer all the fighter's technology to Brazil.

E il potente senatore McCain si è pure messo a fare il "lobbista" .....

US Senator John McCain visited Roussef in early January to support Boeing's possible sale of Super Hornets.

[FAS]

Dassault notes that its Rafale does not contain systems potentially subject to US restrictions, and it is able to transfer all the fighter's technology to Brazil.[/i]

Ma se non lo hanno fatto per l'india perche adesso sarebbero disposti a farlo per il Brasile????

[SuperMau]

FAS, tra l'altro, hai visto che ci hanno rimesso in gioco??

Sources in Brasília suggest the programme review could allow the entry of other contenders beyond previously shortlisted finalists the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale and Saab Gripen NG, with the Eurofighter Typhoon and Sukhoi Su-35BM as prime candidates.

Possibilita' di vittoria, poca....pero' sperare non costa niente....

[FAS]

FAS, tra l'altro, hai visto che ci hanno rimesso in gioco??

Sources in Brasília suggest the programme review could allow the entry of other contenders beyond previously shortlisted finalists the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale and Saab Gripen NG, with the Eurofighter Typhoon and Sukhoi Su-35BM as prime candidates.

Possibilita' di vittoria, poca....pero' sperare non costa niente....

beh visto il regalo fatto ad embraer.....

[richelieu]

Ultime dal Brasile .....

..... tagli alle spese della difesa e rinvio del programma "F-X2" .....


http://goo.gl/Gvagm

http://goo.gl/mSR35

DATE: 23/02/11
SOURCE: Flight International

Brazilian president confirms new slip to F-X2 fighter decision

President Dilma Rousseff of Brazil says a decision about the air force's F-X2 fighter procurement will be delayed by several more months.

Rousseff says the step has been prompted by severe budget cuts of roughly $29.9 billion for fiscal year 2011 that will see the defence ministry's procurement allocation slashed by 26.5%.

Defence minister Nelson Jobim says a decision on F-X2 will not be made before 2012, as a final selection cannot take place while Rousseff has ordered an extensive review of the programme.

Sources within the defence ministry suggest that Rousseff is inclined to minimise political considerations, unlike former president Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva's administration, which clearly favoured the Dassault Rafale, and base a decision primarily on acquisition and operating costs.

If pursued, such a stance is expected to favour Dassault's two rivals for the F-X2 contract; Boeing's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Saab's Gripen NG. The pair emerged as the air force's favourites following the programme's technical analysis and operational evaluation phases.

..... qualcosa mi diceva che c'era da prevederlo .....

[richelieu]

L'attesa continua .....

DATE: 04/04/11
SOURCE: Flight International

Waiting continues for Brazil’s F-X2 contract decision

By Stephen Trimble


Between September 2009 and January 2011, Brazil's F-X2 fighter competition seemed more like a power struggle than an evaluation process, with the state's political leadership favouring the Dassault Rafale and the air force preferring either of two alternatives. In this narrative, the winning bid would belong to the victorious side of an internal battle within the Brazilian bureaucracy, with most bets on the Rafale - President Luiz Inácio "Lula" da Silva's declared favourite.

However, the dynamics of the competition, worth at least $6 billion, completely changed on 6 December 2010, when da Silva ceded the F-X2 decision to his successor and former chief of staff Dilma Rousseff, who became president on 1 January 2011.


© Boeing - Boeing's Super Hornet joins the Dassault Rafale and Saab Gripen on the FX-2 shortlist

Instead of a logjam, the F-X2 programme was suddenly given a clean slate three years after the Brazilian air force formally reopened the acquisition process.

Rather than choose from the three original bids submitted in February 2009, Rousseff extended the evaluation process for a new analysis, which will take at least several months.

At the same time, Rousseff is also balancing projected outlay for the F-X2 contract against one of her other top domestic goals - maintaining a stable economy.

Although Brazil's gross domestic product has accelerated, despite a global recession, inflation is still rising faster than government targets. In an attempt to put a brake on rising consumer prices, Rousseff slashed government spending, with the ministry of defence's acquisition portfolio suffering some of the deepest cuts - 26.5% this year.

Defence minister Nelson Jobim played down the potential impact cuts could have on the F-X2 evaluation but left himself room for manoeuvre, perhaps, with a carefully worded statement saying the budget cut would "not necessarily" hit the F-X2 project this year.

In any case, Nelson points out that outlays for the next-generation fighter will not be registered until 2012 or 2013, even if the winner was selected this year. The selection would also be followed by a long period of firm price negotiation which, Jobim notes, lasted 12 months during the Brazilian navy's recent submarines acquisition. The shift in political leadership has given new hope to the Rafale's competitors - the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the Saab Gripen NG.

"We're encouraged by what we've seen since Rousseff was inaugurated earlier this year," Joe McAndrew, Boeing's vice-president of business development for Europe, Israel and the Americas, says, noting that the result will be "judged on the merits of the airplane and the value of the [economic] offset".

Boeing's confidence may also be bolstered by other signs that momentum in the competition is moving away from the Rafale.

Last month, Rousseff was widely reported to have told Timothy Geithner, secretary of the US Department of Treasury, that the Super Hornet was her favourite in the evaluation.

Rousseff's reported endorsement follows a recent disclosure that Frederico Curado, chief executive of Embraer, also supports the Super Hornet bid. In a diplomatic cable dated January 2009, Curado informed then-US ambassador Clifford Sobel that he "privately hopes Boeing wins", although Embraer's official position on the F-X2 is neutral.


© Dassault

However, Boeing's biggest trump card was played on 20 March, when US President Barack Obama met Rousseff on his first visit to Brazil. According to White House officials, Rousseff raised the Super Hornet bid first during a private meeting and Obama repeated his administration's assurances about full transfer of technology - the key sticking point in the Boeing bid. There is a strongly held view in some quarters of Brazilian government and industry that US export policies cannot be relied on. In October 2009, Brigadier Engineer Venancio Alvarenga Gomes, director of projects for Brazil's aerospace technology command, was caught on camera issuing a warning during a lecture about his organisation's experience with the US export control process. Foremost among concerns was a perceived inconsistency in the application of US policies, which had forced the Brazilian air force to scramble repeatedly on previous programmes, Gomes said.

Gomes's presentation concluded with an image of the F/A-18E with a red "X" stamped over it - not a great endorsement from the head of the Brazilian air force's top aeronautical research organisation. On the other hand, the security relationship between the USA and Brazil has continued to evolve since 1977, when Brazil unilaterally withdrew military co-operation with the USA.



In 2008, the US Department of Defense reconvened a bilateral working group with Brazil for the first time in six years. Last November, the USA and Brazil signed a general security military information agreement, which allows the USA to exchange classified information with Brazil.

The agreement was signed despite serious diplomatic disagreements. Only two months earlier, da Silva's administration had refused to support US efforts to invoke United Nations sanctions on Iran. "There have been significant policy dust-ups between the US and Brazil, especially over Iran, and nobody made any mention of technology transfer," McAndrew says. Before Wikileaks indicated the Super Hornet was a secret favourite of Brazilian authorities, Saab's bid enjoyed that status. Last January, the Folha de São Paulo newspaper leaked a summary of the air force's 27,000-page evaluation report, which reportedly ranked the Gripen NG as the service's first choice to replace the Dassault Mirage 2000-5.

Bengt Janer, Saab's Gripen campaign director in Brazil, says Brazil's air force and industry have a chance to become part of a supply chain featuring the next-generation of Sweden's single-engined fighter.

"Although we are proposing a development programme which could be seen as a riskier business," Janer says, "this development programme is based on a fighter that has been sold to five countries. The air force saw this early and they said this is what they want."



© Jamie Hunter/Saab

Saab's sales pitch is less about political forces than building industrial capability, he says. "What is unrestricted technology?" Janer asks, referencing the air force's requirement for export release. "What is it that really interests a country like Brazil? Is it a radar? Is it an engine? What Saab proposed is we share technology with Brazil in the integration of different systems."

Sweden may lack the star quality of a state visit by a US or French president, but the Gripen has been fully supported by its country's political leadership. In addition to several visits by defence minister Sten Tolgfors in 2009, Brazil has also been personally lobbied by Sweden's king and queen.

If any country has claimed political advantage in the competition so far, however, it has been France. On Brazilian independence day, 7 September, in 2009, visiting French President Nicolas Sarkozy secured da Silva's promise that Brazil would buy 36 Rafales in exchange for France purchasing 12 KC-390s. That deal was followed by a long period of price adjustment. By August, local reports had Rafale emerging as the top-ranked aircraft in the air force evaluation, even though it was still the most expensive. The ranking was reportedly changed to make technology transfer more important than operating cost.

[richelieu]

E intanto i Russi ritornano alla carica .....

DATE: 14/04/11
SOURCE: Flight International

Sukhoi still making push for F-X2 bid in Brazil

By Stephen Trimble

Sukhoi is still pushing for a chance to compete for Brazil's F-X2 fighter contract despite being dropped from the air force's short-list two years ago.

"We still apply all possible efforts open to us to get back" in the competition, says Mikhail Bregman, first deputy general of Sukhoi for sales and marketing, speaking through an interpreter.

Bregman says he thinks Sukhoi's bid based on the Su-35 is "better by far" compared to the F-X2 competitors, which now include the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale and Saab Gripen.



The Su-35 possesses some capabilities even superior to Sukhoi's design for a fifth-generation fighter, which is called the promising front-line fighter aircraft (PAK-FA).

So far, Brazil has not officially re-opened the competition to new bidders.

President Dilma Rousseff, who was inaugurated on 1 January, has launched a comprehensive review of the air force's two-year-old evaluation process for F-X2, which possibly further delays contract award to next year.

But Rousseff's review is considering only the existing three bids.

"Since we don't have any final decision [by the Brazilian government], we can't exclude any options at this time," says Sergei Goreslaveskiy, head of the Russian delegation to the Latin America Aerospace and Defense 2011 conference in Rio de Janeiro.

Meanwhile, Boeing, Dassault and Saab continued making their case in Brazil this week for the 36-aircraft contract.

Ormai questa competizione sta diventando una telenovela (d'altronde siamo in Brasile) ..... e poi ..... che cosa ne penserà Chavez?

[Ashaman]

pensiamo le strade cittadine senza vigili urbani o le autostrade senza polizia stradale.....non dobbiamo pensare che dei velivoli militare servano solo a fare la guerra

Quanto staremmo meglio e pagheremmo meno tasse...

Tanto, almeno dalle mie parti, i vigili escono fuori dai bar nei quali si inguattano solo per fare multe alle macchine in divieto di sosta... ma solo e soltanto quando al Comune i soldi non bastano e servono nuove e straordinarie entrate, che sennò è troppo uno sbattone... e invariabilmente guardando dall'altra parte quando invece un quadrumane in macchina commette infrazioni da stracciargli la patente in faccia all'istante...

Polizia stradale e vigili? Grazie no, preferisco VIVERE!

Ecco questo secondo me è un discorso da sviluppare.
Sento gente dire: "ok, ma cosa ce ne facciamo dei "caccia"? Servono per la guerra ed è una cosa negativa blablabla"

Non si pensa alla sicurezza aerea, difesa ecc ecc

Beh... si, ma prova con lo stesso discorso a giustificare i BOMBARDIERI.

Che forse abbiamo necessità di bombardare qualche città delle nostre per mantenere l'ordine?

[richelieu]

Tanto per ingannare l'attesa .....

DATE: 11/04/11
SOURCE: Flight International

Brazil to upgrade more F-5 fighters

By Arie Egozi


AEL Sistemas has received a follow-on contract from Embraer Defense and Security to support the upgrade of 11 more Northrop F-5s for the Brazilian air force.

An Elbit Systems subsidiary, AEL will provide the modified aircraft's radar, mission computer, displays, weapons management system and electronic warfare equipment under the $85 million deal, with work to conclude in 2013. It will also deliver one flight simulator, spare parts and ground support equipment.

The new award follows earlier contracts secured from Embraer in 2001 and 2007 linked to the F-5 modernisation programme.


© Embraer

"AEL has become a centre of excellence for avionics and the follow-on award attests to the customer's satisfaction with our performance track record," says Elbit chief executive Joseph Ackerman.

[FAS]

pensiamo le strade cittadine senza vigili urbani o le autostrade senza polizia stradale.....non dobbiamo pensare che dei velivoli militare servano solo a fare la guerra

Quanto staremmo meglio e pagheremmo meno tasse...

Tanto, almeno dalle mie parti, i vigili escono fuori dai bar nei quali si inguattano solo per fare multe alle macchine in divieto di sosta... ma solo e soltanto quando al Comune i soldi non bastano e servono nuove e straordinarie entrate, che sennò è troppo uno sbattone... e invariabilmente guardando dall'altra parte quando invece un quadrumane in macchina commette infrazioni da stracciargli la patente in faccia all'istante...

Polizia stradale e vigili? Grazie no, preferisco VIVERE!

beh denunciali alla procura.....se non lo fai sei loro complice
la nostra nazione dobbiamo ripulirla non infangarla...

non sei giustificato a buttare il pacchetto di sigaretta per strada perchè ve ne sono a terra già altri...

sei il solito disfattista....

[ELTAR]

Anche quando tutti gli uomini avranno tutto, ci sarà sempre chi ne vorrà di più (*)...Affinchè il male trionfi è sufficiente che i buoni rinuncino all'azione ( Edmund Burke), soprattutto se sono senza deterrente. Quando si riuscirà a comprendere questa tragica realtà si potrà vivere più serenamente, anche senza iperboli fantastiche su polizia stradale e vigili urbani...

*ELTAR

[Ashaman]

pensiamo le strade cittadine senza vigili urbani o le autostrade senza polizia stradale.....non dobbiamo pensare che dei velivoli militare servano solo a fare la guerra

Quanto staremmo meglio e pagheremmo meno tasse...

Tanto, almeno dalle mie parti, i vigili escono fuori dai bar nei quali si inguattano solo per fare multe alle macchine in divieto di sosta... ma solo e soltanto quando al Comune i soldi non bastano e servono nuove e straordinarie entrate, che sennò è troppo uno sbattone... e invariabilmente guardando dall'altra parte quando invece un quadrumane in macchina commette infrazioni da stracciargli la patente in faccia all'istante...

Polizia stradale e vigili? Grazie no, preferisco VIVERE!

beh denunciali alla procura.....se non lo fai sei loro complice
la nostra nazione dobbiamo ripulirla non infangarla...

non sei giustificato a buttare il pacchetto di sigaretta per strada perchè ve ne sono a terra già altri...

sei il solito disfattista....

Vediamo ora se indovini quante denunce hanno già ricevute e quante volte sono stati rimproverati e se e quanti provvedimenti disciplinari hanno ricevuto, CARO IL MIO OTTIMISTA. Hai solo tre tentativi e i primi due non valgono.

[richelieu]

Si riparla del "Gripen" navale ..... obiettivo: il Brasile .....

http://goo.gl/kdwRR

[richelieu]

Secondo quanto riportato da "Le Télégramme.com" .....

http://goo.gl/Aor0s

..... ripreso da "The DEW Line", il blog tenuto da Stephen Trimble su "Flightglobal.com" .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/the-d ... rance.html

..... il Brasile intenderebbe acquistare il "Rafale" ..... però, almeno per ora, non può.

Lo sostiene il Presidente francese Sarkozy, al quale lo avrebbe confidato privatamente M.me Rousseff, sua pari grado nel paese latino americano.

[richelieu]

Mentre la Signora Presidente frena .....

..... le Brésil n'était «pas en mesure de s'engager sur l'achat d'avions de guerre quels qu'ils soient»

Fonte (già citata nel post precedente) ..... http://goo.gl/Aor0s

..... pochi giorni dopo il Signor Ministro della Difesa accelera .....

Brazil in 'Urgent' Need Of Fighter Jets .....

Fonte ..... http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=7836862&&s=TOP

[FAS]

se io mi compro i tuoi fenomenali Embraer tu ti devi comprare i miei caccia.....

qui qualcuno si è fatto fregare dalle promesse del governo brasiliano

[richelieu]

qui qualcuno si è fatto fregare dalle promesse del governo brasiliano

E qui necessitano disperatamente ulteriori chiarimenti .....

[FAS]

qui qualcuno si è fatto fregare dalle promesse del governo brasiliano

E qui necessitano disperatamente ulteriori chiarimenti .....

beh a buon intenditor poche parole......

[richelieu]

qui qualcuno si è fatto fregare dalle promesse del governo brasiliano

E qui necessitano disperatamente ulteriori chiarimenti .....

beh a buon intenditor poche parole......

Amen .....

[richelieu]

Gli Svedesi ci sperano ancora .....

Gripen Sees Brazilian Fighter Decision Soon

By Robert Wall

Source: .... Aerospace Daily & Defense Report (AW&ST) .... (June 01, 2012)

LINKOPING, Sweden —

After years of delay, Gripen International believes Brazil is nearly ready to make a decision in its fighter competition, in which the company’s single-engine fighter is in competition against the Boeing F/A-18E/F and Dassault Rafale.

“We get the feeling it is the endgame,” notes Eddy de La Motte, vice president for marketing for Gripen International, the joint venture of Saab and BAE Systems that markets the Swedish fighter to export customers.

Saab could deliver the first Gripen E/F (also called the NG) fighter four years after contract award, but it is still unclear if that is the schedule Brasilia will insist on or whether it will join the combined Swiss/Swedish Gripen E/F development schedule, which would see the first fighter handed over in 2018.

The first Gripen E/F prototype is due to fly late next year if the Swiss and Swedish governments can agree on the development path forward. The effort would likely require some Saab funding too.

Meanwhile, the Selex Galileo Raven ES-05 active, electronically scanned array radar is to fly on the Gripen NG demonstrator soon, during which time the cockpit displays and sensor will be put through their paces.

The Swedish government has an offer on the table to potential export buyers to accelerate its purchase if another country wants the Gripen E/F early, but does not want to be the lead buyer. That offer remains on the table, de La Motte says.

A win in Brazil could open the door to other fighter deals in South America, adds Frederik Gustafson, regional director for Gripen exports in the Americas. “There is a huge need for new fighters in the region and the economies are growing,” he tells reporters on the sidelines of Aerospace Forum Sweden 2012. There are more than a handful of countries that are looking to buy in the next five years, he adds.

But that is not the only region where the manufacturer is working to meet its target of selling 300 fighters over the next decade. In Thailand, where it has already sold 12 Gripens (six are delivered and six will follow next year), it hopes for additional deals. Malaysia, the Philippines, Indonesia and, “in a couple of years,” Vietnam may be opportunities, de La Motte says.

Efforts also continue to extend the fighter lease deal with the Czech Republic and secure orders in places such as Bulgaria, Romania, Croatia and Slovakia. Gripen also still hopes to convince Denmark and the Netherlands to defect from the F-35A Joint Strike Fighter program to which they are committed.

[MatteF88]

Ah, allora il Brasile non ha scelto il rafale...

[mendris]

... E' questioni di costi: per una ventina di apparecchi il Gripen costa un miliardo in meno (USD/CHF) di Rafale/Typhoon. Poi c'è l'argomento dei costi di gestione...

[MatteF88]

... E' questioni di costi: per una ventina di apparecchi il Gripen costa un miliardo in meno di Rafale/Typhoon. Poi c'è l'argomento dei costi di gestione...

Ti riferisci al Gripen NG?? Se comprano made in Sweden, lo comprano NG...devono ancora svilupparlo, chissà quanto costerà alla fine..e chissà quando sarà davvero pronto..

[richelieu]

Ah, allora il Brasile non ha scelto il rafale...

In effetti ..... bisognerebbe modificare il titolo della discussione ..... tipo ..... "Il Brasile non ha ancora scelto ..... ma sta pensandoci su ..... seriamente ....."

Ma forse risulterebbe un pò troppo lungo .....

[mendris]

... E' questioni di costi: per una ventina di apparecchi il Gripen costa un miliardo in meno di Rafale/Typhoon. Poi c'è l'argomento dei costi di gestione...

Ti riferisci al Gripen NG?? Se comprano made in Sweden, lo comprano NG...devono ancora svilupparlo, chissà quanto costerà alla fine..e chissà quando sarà davvero pronto..

`
Può darsi che si tratti delle attuali versioni C/D oppure delle future E/F (le chiamano già elvetosvedesi). Il 20 settembre il Parlamento svedese discuterà sull'acquisto di 60-80 versioni E/F, acquisto determinante anche per le decisioni svizzere. Tutto si svolgerà in parallelo fra la Flygvapen e la Luftwaffe svizzera con consegne a partire dal 2018. Per altri Paesi... chissà! A me pare che SAAB abbia dimostrato finora una certa elasticità nei contatti, proposte, contratti di vendita o di leasing e qualche successo l'ha avuto...

[MatteF88]

... E' questioni di costi: per una ventina di apparecchi il Gripen costa un miliardo in meno di Rafale/Typhoon. Poi c'è l'argomento dei costi di gestione...

Ti riferisci al Gripen NG?? Se comprano made in Sweden, lo comprano NG...devono ancora svilupparlo, chissà quanto costerà alla fine..e chissà quando sarà davvero pronto..

`
Può darsi che si tratti delle attuali versioni C/D oppure delle future E/F (le chiamano già elvetosvedesi).

Ma non avrebbe senso prendere i C/D dopo aver indetto sto concorso F-X2.
Tutto questo ambaradan per poi alla fine acquistare degli aerei non proprio "ultimo grido", senz'altro meno performanti di Typhoon e Rafale (e Super Hornet)

[mendris]

... ma, insomma, il Brasile ha poi acquistato una portaerei ex francese con più di mezzo secolo di vita! Deve poi difendersi da chi? Il suo futuro è la sua economia (da gestire bene). Le forze armate, come altrove in Sudamerica, sono tradizionalmente importanti, tecnicamente all'avanguardia non direi. Un acquisto di oggetti costosi è da ponderare molto bene, come un po' dappertutto. Da quando sono in questi forum (2007 mi pare) di grandi contratti non ce ne sono stati...a parte la regione del Golfo. Per chi non vive dalla vendita del petrolio le priorità, di questi tempi, sono altre. La politica è fatta di molte parole, di fatti un po' meno. Buona parte della aviazioni militari (con aerei da combattimento) stanno in piedi con apparecchi non giovanissimi o di seconda mano. Perché non un Gripen C/D?.. SAAB, in una situazione di incertezza, fa bene a insistere. Vedremo.

[MatteF88]

Deve poi difendersi da chi? ....

Perché non un Gripen C/D?.

Vale anche per la svizzera...Eh..

[MatteF88]

Deve poi difendersi da chi? ....

Perché non un Gripen C/D?.

Vale anche, soprattutto, per la svizzera...Eh..

Sorry, editato male!!

[mendris]

Ma sì, in Svizzera ci si chiede anche chi possa essere il nemico. Negli anni 80 si pretendeva di più di quanto sia necessario adesso. L' "Hornet", in servizio da 15 anni, ha sempre battuto il Gripen C/D usato nelle valutazioni del 2008. Quindi, adesso, ci vuole un aereo con maggiori prestazioni anche se non sarà un Rafale/Typhoon. Ci sarà la versione E/F basata sulle esperienze del dimostratore tecnologico NG. Forze aeree e Armasuisse hanno fornito a SAAB una lunga lista di esigenze e modifiche. Costo max: 3,126 miliardi di franchi. Niente di più. L' aspetto finanziario assume aspetti non solo importanti ma determinanti. Lo è stato negli anni scorsi anche in Brasile e lo è anche adesso. D'altronde non credo proprio che una presidente (Rousseff) con una forte connotazione di sinistra abbia una grande sensibilità per le cose militari.

[FAS]

Deve poi difendersi da chi? ....

Perché non un Gripen C/D?.

Vale anche per la svizzera...Eh..

dalle bucce di noccioline lanciate dai finestrini delle autovetture con targa tedesca all'incorcio delle statali 13 e 16