KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

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richelieu
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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 18 luglio 2010, 16:25

EADS ci spera .....

..... anche se, afferma, ....."Tanker is a very important strategic move for us, but we can live without it" .....
Fonte: AviationWeek.com

Tanker Key To Ambitious EADS Revenue Goal

By Amy Butler - London (July 17, 2010)

EADS North America Chief Executive Officer Sean O’Keefe says he plans to mushroom the company’s revenues to $10 billion by 2020, and winning the U.S. Air Force KC-X refueling tanker competition is a large part of achieving this goal.

Revenue in 2009 was $1.2 billion, according to O’Keefe’s spokesman, Guy Hicks.

The program to replace 179 KC-135 refuelers is estimated to be worth about $35 billion. Each contestant must meet 373 mandatory requirements, and a winner will determined largely on cost.

Jean Chamberlain, vice president of Boeing’s tanker program, says price for her company’s 767-based bid will be lower this time than for the last tanker duel in 2008. EADS, with U.S. prime partner Northrop Grumman, won that competition, but work was halted after a Boeing protest turned up procurement missteps by the Air Force.

Gallois said EADS is willing to accept “tightened” profit for its A330-200-based proposal but, “We want to gain money on this project.

“I am a bit surprised that they are reducing the price when it is fixed price,” Gallois said July 17 during a day of pre-Farnborough International Airshow briefings hosted here by EADS. Gallois echoed EADS North America executives in saying risk in developing a 330-200-based tanker is largely retired based on progress with the first Multi-Role Tanker Transports for Australia. “For us, the risk is lower now than in 2008 because the aircraft is flying now [and] refueling every day.” The U.S. offering is 90% common to the MRTT design, says O’Keefe.

Boeing, however, lacks a flying prototype; its 767-based tankers are different for Japan and Italy. The company is planning to upgrade the KC-10 boom for use on its tanker and integrate the 787 cockpit into the aircraft.

O’Keefe says that the company can meet its goal of $10 billion in revenue by 2020 faster by winning the tanker competition. “Tanker is a very important strategic move for us, but we can live without it.

Other potential programs for the company in the U.S. defense market include the partnership with Lockheed Martin to sell modified UH-72 aircraft to the Army for its Armed Aerial Scout program and the option of proposing the EC 725 or the NH90 to the Air Force for intercontinental ballistic missile field support and executive lift.

:mrgreen:

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richelieu
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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 21 luglio 2010, 20:44

Intanto Boeing rivela qualcosa .....
..... ma col contagocce ..... :mrgreen:
DATE: 21/07/10
SOURCE: Flight Daily News (sito: flightglobal.com)

FARNBOROUGH: Boeing hints at KC-767 NewGen Tanker design

By Stephen Trimble


In a huddle with reporters after a press briefing, a Boeing executive offered the most tangible hint to date that the KC-767 NewGen Tanker blends major structural components from different aircraft models.

Charles Johnson, Boeing vice president of air force mobility, told reporters during the briefing that it will not be "easy" for EADS North America to adapt the KC-45 with cockpit armour and defensive systems.

Asked afterward if Boeing could reassure the public that the KC-767 NewGen Tanker would require less challenging design changes, Johnson said he could.

Immagine
©Boeing

A reporter noted that Boeing's KC-767 design featured a wing and fuselage from different aircraft models, which would seem to pose a greater redesign challenge than integrating defensive systems and cockpit armour.

Johnson replied that "it's pretty straightforward actually" to install a wing from a different model on to the 767-200 fuselage.

Johnson cited the example of the Boeing P-8A programme, which matches the wing of the 737-900ER to the fuselage of the -800 and is built in-line rather than modified afterward.

That was the closest Boeing has come to revealing details of the structural design of the KC-767 NewGen Tanker. In the last round of the KC-X competition, Boeing faced criticism for blending elements of three different 767 models into the so-called "frankentanker".

A day earlier, Boeing executives at a media roundtable pointedly declined to link the experience on the P-8A programme to the NewGen Tanker design, saying that doing so would be giving away competitive information.

Instead, Dennis Muilenburg, offered only one other key detail about the NewGen Tanker.

In response to questions, Muilenburg revealed the KC-767 NewGen Tanker includes a boom based on the hardware of the KC-10 and upgraded with fly-by-wire controls developed for the KC-767s purchased by Italy and Japan.

Boeing had previously indicated the system includes fly-by-wire, but had not disclosed the system for KC-X came from the Italian and Japanese tankers.

It seems a small detail, but it's one of the few specific disclosures that Boeing has allowed to be released in the intense competition for a contract award to build up to 179 tankers.

8)

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da hiyoyo » 22 luglio 2010, 13:25

... :) Rich...NE SAI!!... :)

(..e speriamo che vada tutto bene...almeno per i nostri, che un uccellino mi ha detto "in arrivo" verso fine anno... :lol: :twisted: )


"..AIN'T BOEING, AIN'T GOING...!"
-_CHECK SIX_- ...ain't Boeing,ain't going!

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 25 luglio 2010, 9:31

Antonov ..... sta ancora aspettando .....
..... una risposta dall'USAF ..... :mrgreen:
DATE: 25/07/10
SOURCE: Flight Daily News (sito: flightglobal.com)

FARNBOROUGH:
Antonov awaits USAF response to KC-X bid


By Stephen Trimble


"Not yet". That is the line from Antonov on whether it has received a response to its shock last-minute bid for the US Air Force's KC-X tanker contest early this month.

"This is the first opportunity for us to bid in such a tender in the USA," says Antonov president general designer Dmitry Kyva.
Teamed with US Aerospace, it has submitted a bid based on the proposed An-112KC.

"It is very difficult for us to evaluate our chances," he says, but adds: "Our aircraft meets all the requirements."

Kyva describes the Ukrainian company's surprise venture into the 179-aircraft KC-X battle as "a new experience".
It hopes to receive a response allowing it to go forward in the contest, against the Boeing KC-767 NewGen Tanker and EADS North America KC-45, but he comments: "We will not be too upset if we don't."

Una risposta, prima o poi, dovranno pur darla .....

:bounce:

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 27 luglio 2010, 20:59

I duellanti .....
DATE: 27/07/10
SOURCE: Flight International

Boeing goes on new KC-X offensive

By Stephen Trimble


Boeing launched a new rhetorical offensive in the KC-X contract battle at Farnborough, reviving old criticisms about its rival's approach to hard envelope protection and non-feedback sidesticks.

Charles Johnson, Boeing vice-president of mobility, charged that the bedrocks of Airbus's cockpit philosophy would place military pilots in danger.

In response, EADS North America, which has proposed an Airbus A330-200 modified into the KC-45 tanker, shot back that the KC-767 NewGen Tanker poses the greater risk to pilot safety.

"Boeing is clearly raising these red-herring issues in an attempt to distract from its lack of a tanker and from the considerable risk it is offering the [US] Air Force by proposing a tanker that only exists on paper," EADS NA says.

The new debate aggravated the rhetoric on both sides of the debate, which had previously been mostly characterised by bickering over fuel capacity and commercial aircraft subsidies.

In marketing videos, Boeing had boasted about how the KC-767 is designed to give pilots full control to manoeuvre the aircraft in any situation, such as dodging a missile attack.

But company officials had so far refrained from directly criticising the Airbus hard envelope protection system, which is designed to limit the pilot's ability to manoeuvre the aircraft beyond preset limits.

The KC-767, by contrast, gives the pilot "complete, full access to the aircraft envelope", Johnson says, adding: "The pilot can always override" limits set by the flight controls.

"You want to be able to make [certain manoeuvres] and not always be limited," Johnson says.

EADS NA says that pilots in the A330 multi-role tanker transport - on which the KC-45 is based - are not limited to making any manoeuvre that they would need in combat.

Johnson also criticises the Airbus use of sidesticks that provide no feedback response to pilots. Boeing yokes are back-driven, allowing the pilot to feel a response from the flight controls even in a fly-by-wire aircraft.

"Boeing's condemnations of fly-by-wire technology are puzzling, given its extensive use of the same technology in many of its own military aircraft, and the air force's use of sidestick in some of its most successful aircraft," EADS NA says.

:leftfighter7: :rightfighter5:

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 4 agosto 2010, 22:28

Ci sono novità (1) .....

..... e US Aerospace mette le mani avanti ..... nell'eventualità di un'esclusione ..... e con la prospettiva di una protesta che ritarderebbe ulteriormente il programma .....
Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

The Mysterious Third Bidder for KC-X ... A Potential Protestor?
Posted by Amy Butler at 8/4/2010 10:42 AM CDT

There was a flurry of news about a month ago when the small California firm, US Aerospace, signaled an intent to propose an option for the U.S. Air Force's $35 billion KC-X aerial refueler competition.

The company said it had three potential offerings, all based on platforms made by Antonov, which is a state-owned Ukranian firm. They are the An-122 An-124 and An-112.

At the end of the day, though, SEC filings (*) indicate the team only put forth one bid because the Pentagon denied a request to extend the bidding period. This is "resulting in a significantly more rushed process than we desired, and substantially hindering our ability to submit a full and complete bid package," according to the July 1 form 8K filed by US Aerospace. "The Air Force may find that our proposal does not meet all mandatory RFP requirement, that we do not have qualified subcontractors and teaming partners, that we are not a capable and responsible contractor, that we have not obtained or processed the classified information that is needed to prepare a proposal, that we have not demonstrated that the company has the facility and personnel clearances that are prerequisites to receiving, handling and storing classified information, and that our failure to meet the proposal submittal deadline was attributable to our failure to act diligently and promptly."

Past SEC filings listed debt as an area of concern for the company. But, senior company officials apparently recently came to the rescue with some cash(**). Arnold said this will help "clean up the balance sheet." One of DoD's requirements for competitors is to prove the team is financially viable enough to handle a program the size of KC-X. USAF is buying 179 tankers.

So ... one may ask, given all the adversity, why even bid?

Chuck Arnold, an advisor to the company, says if -- and he used the word IF -- the competition is fair and open, US Aerospace and Antonov will have the lowest price. He says they have a better boom than those offered by EADS and Boeing. He declined to disclose who makes this boom, but boasted it can offload at 1,600 gallons per minute; USAF only wants 1,200 GPM.

But, all this talk of potential disqualification smells like a potential protest in the works. "If our plane is looked at, we will be selected," Arnold said, adding that he expects "obstacles" for the company in competing.

Arnold also said that the small size of US Aerospace -- the company lists fewer than 30 employees on some SEC filings -- is a benefit. It will cut down on overhead and allow for the licensing of companies stateside to handle the legwork, he said. Arnold declined to identify those companies.

He also declined to provide any aircraft design details, citing a nondisclosure agreement with Antonov. But, he says that more information is expected to be released at the end of September.

However, if the team is eyeing a protest it will delay an already protracted, nearly decade-long attempt by the USAF at buying KC-135 replacements.

So ... back to this idea of bid requirement compliance. The Pentagon still has not answered questions on how bid compliance is determined. Is there a "quick look" process, as one industry official suggested, where the Air Force does a basic sniff test on bids to make sure there are no glaring problems? And, if there is, is the service required to notify the bidder that he is noncompliant and out of the competition promptly, or simply at the end of the competition?

This will be the crux of handling the US Aerospace Antonov issue; if the company is already predicting being thrown out, the question now seems to be not if the team protests, but when.

(*) ..... http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/dis ... 253d318716

(**) ..... http://www.usaerospace.com/us-aerospace ... -full-year

:mrgreen:

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 4 agosto 2010, 22:44

Ci sono novità (2) .....

..... e, infatti, US Aerospace è fuori ..... causa ritardo ..... :mrgreen:
Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

Only Two Bids for KC-X -- US Aerospace/Antonov is OUT
Posted by Amy Butler at 8/4/2010 1:40 PM CDT

If you thought the latest KC-X competition couldn't get weirder once the obscure U.S. Aerospace/Antonov bid surfaced last month, you were wrong.

Despite crowing by the U.S. Aerospace advisor, Chuck Arnold, about a KC-X bid, it seems the company didn't dot its i's and cross its t's -- at least not in time.

Bids to compete for the program -- 179 KC-135 replacements estimated to be worth $35 billion -- were due at 2 p.m. EST at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio. Apparently, the U.S. Aerospace/Antonov bid didn't make it in time.

"Those deadlines count," says Geoff Morrell, Pentagon press secretary. "They mean something ... They are there for a reason and any professional contractor knows that."

EADS submitted its bid a day early, and dispatched two copies -- one by air and one by land. Boeing's bid was received at about 9 a.m. on July 9, Morrell says. He declined to say when paperwork from U.S. Aerospace/Antonov arrived, if at all.

"The proposal was late and by law we are not allowed to consider it," Morrell says. "We are considering two proposals and U.S. Aerospace is not one of those being considered."

On March 31, the Pentagon announced a 60-day extension to the due date for proposals; EADS requested an extension after its former prime contractor, Northrop Grumman, abruptly walked away from the team. "Any serious bidder had at least 120 days in which to get their bids together," Morrell says.

Arnold, however, insisted as recently as last night to Aviation Week that its company had submitted a bid and "if considered" would win.

He did not promptly return a call for comment about Morrell's statements.

Mò viene il bello .....

:bom:

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richelieu
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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 5 agosto 2010, 7:49

E, puntualmente, arriva la contestazione ..... :mrgreen:

Aggiornamento al post precedente ..... sempre dalla stessa fonte .....
UPDATE: U.S. Aerospace filed a protest with the Government Accountability Office Aug. 2 citing "unreasonable" conduct by the U.S. Air Force. According to an industry executive, the company's messenger arrived at the Wright-Patterson AFB gate at 1:30 p.m. July 9 (30 minutes before the deadline) and was denied entry, given bad directions and told to wait by Air Force personnel. As a result, the Air Force stamped the proposal received at 2:05 p.m.

Could it be that five minutes brings this KC-X schedule to its knees?


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richelieu
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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 5 agosto 2010, 8:11

In dettaglio .....
Fonte: AviationWeek.com

U.S. Aerospace Protests KC-X Source Selection

By Amy Butler (August 4, 2010)


The Pentagon is assessing only two bids for the U.S. Air Force KC-135 replacement competition because a last-minute proposal from U.S. Aerospace/Antonov was not received before the deadline, according to Geoff Morrell, Pentagon press secretary.

This has sparked a protest from U.S. Aerospace filed Aug. 2 with the U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO). Company officials say that the “conduct of the Air Force was unreasonable”, among other complaints, according to an industry executive. They claim that personnel at the Aeronautical Systems Center at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, where the KC-X program office is located, discriminated against their bid.

Bids for the KC-X competition, estimated to be worth about $35 billion for 179 tankers, were due at 2 p.m. July 9 local time at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio (which is in the Eastern time zone). EADS submitted its proposal a day early, and dispatched two copies — one by air and one by ground — to be sure it arrived. Boeing’s submission was received at around 9 a.m. July 9, according to Morrell. “Those deadlines count,” he says. “They mean something. They are there for a reason and any professional contractor knows that.” Both EADS and Boeing said their proposals were more than 8,000 pages in length.

According to an industry executive, a messenger carrying a bid from U.S. Aerospace arrived at the Wright-Patterson gate at about 1:30 p.m., 30 minutes before the deadline. “Air Force personnel intentionally denied the messenger entry to the base” and later provided “incorrect directions,” and forced the messenger to wait when he got turned around. The proposal was marked 2:05 p.m., but this executive says that the bid was under Air Force control prior to that time.

Morrell, however, stands by the Pentagon’s view that the proposal was not received on time. “This is a $30-40 billion bid,” he says. “This is not a high school homework assignment. Deadlines count here.”

U.S. Aerospace/Antonov had requested an extension to the proposal due date, but that was declined by the Pentagon. On March 31, the Defense Department had already extended the deadline by 60 days to provide time for EADS to prepare its bid. Its longtime teaming arrangement with former prime contractor Northrop Grumman ended abruptly in March, forcing the company to step up in the prime role at the last minute.

The proposal was late and by law we are not allowed to consider it,” Morrell said in response to a query from AVIATION WEEK. “We are considering two proposals and U.S. Aerospace is not one of those being considered.”

Chuck Arnold, a senior advisor to U.S. Aerospace, says the company is proposing an An-112 concept based on the four-engine An-70 transport. The design features a boom capable of offloading 1,600 gal. per minute (more than the 1,200 gal. per minute required by the Air Force), and he boasts that it would be far less expensive than the Boeing 767-based design or the EADS A330-200 tanker platform.

Arnold declined to identify the boom manufacturer or any U.S. partners other than U.S. Aerospace, a small firm based in Southern California that was to be prime; he citied a nondisclosure agreement with Antonov. Antonov is a state-owned manufacturer in the Ukraine, but Arnold insisted, without providing details, that some assembly of the tankers would take place in the United States.

The eleventh-hour emergence of the U.S. Aerospace/Antonov bid sparked many questions. U.S. Aerospace is a small company; in Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) filings the company has listed about 30 employees. It is not clear how such a small contractor would be able to manage a massive contract and supply chain, though Arnold touts the small company size as a benefit in lean management.

Additionally, the company has recently had financial problems, including debt. Arnold notes that board members recently secured an influx of funding to “clean up the books,” but this, too, calls into question the ability of the firm to manage a major Defense Department contract. A July 1 SEC filing notes additional cash on hand.

A new board of directors took over the company in March, renaming it from New Century to U.S. Aerospace and shifting the focus to address only aerospace products.

However, the company seemed even in its July 1 SEC filing to be aware that it may not meet the requirements called for by the Air Force. To compete in KC-X, each bidder must meet 372 mandatory requirements and demonstrate its ability to manage the contract. The Pentagon’s denial for the bid extension was “resulting in a significantly more rushed process than we desired, and substantially hindering our ability to submit a full and complete bid package,” according to the July 1 SEC filing from U.S. Aerospace. “The Air Force may find that our proposal does not meet all mandatory RFP requirement, that we do not have qualified subcontractors and teaming partners, that we are not a capable and responsible contractor, that we have not obtained or processed the classified information that is needed to prepare a proposal, that we have not demonstrated that the company has the facility and personnel clearances that are prerequisites to receiving, handling and storing classified information, and that our failure to meet the proposal submittal deadline was attributable to our failure to act diligently and promptly.”

Arnold says that “If our plane is looked at, we will be selected,” adding that he expects “obstacles” for the company in competing.

The Air Force’s tanker pursuits have been years in the making. A 2002 attempt by the service to lease Boeing 767 tankers crumbled after Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) found bloated pricing and began an investigation that eventually led to jail time for former senior Air Force procurement official Darleen Druyun and former Boeing Chief Financial Office Michael Sears.

A later competition won by Northrop Grumman/EADS was thrown out after a Boeing protest uncovered missteps by the Air Force during the source selection process. More recently, Defense Secretary Robert Gates himself stepped in last year to table a new competition; he called for a “cooling off” period between the contractors.

The current competition is the Air Force’s most recent attempt to replacing aging KC-135s. A downselect is expected in November shortly after the national elections.

Andando avanti di questo passo, l'USAF riceverà i suoi nuovi "tankers" ..... nen prima del 2050 .....

:mrgreen: :drunken:

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richelieu
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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 6 agosto 2010, 8:55

E qui si parla di "cospirazione" .....
DATE: 05/08/10
SOURCE: Flight International

US Aerospace appeals against KC-X exclusion, blames USAF ‘conspiracy’.

By Stephen Trimble


US Aerospace is appealing against its exclusion from the KC-X competition, on the grounds that US Air Force personnel intentionally delayed the company's messenger from submitting a bid on time.

The protest, filed on 2 August with the US Government Accountability Office, is the latest twist since US Aerospace entered the KC-X contract race six weeks before the USAF's 9 July deadline, offering a twinjet-powered version of the Antonov An-70 airlifter called the An-112KC.

It is unclear whether the protest could immediately halt the USAF's source selection process for the 179-aircraft deal, which involves the Boeing KC-767 NextGen Tanker and EADS North America KC-45.


Immagine
© Antonov (US Aerospace is offering a twinjet-powered version of the Antonov An-70 airlifter called the An-112KC)

The GAO bid docket website shows that the USAF's response to US Aerospace's claims is not due until 10 November, which is two days before the KC-X contract is scheduled to be awarded.

California-based US Aerospace says in a filing with the US Securities Exchange Commission that it believes USAF personnel intentionally held up a messenger dispatched to Wright Patterson AFB, Ohio, on 9 July.

The messenger arrived at the base 30min before the 14:00 bid deadline, US Aerospace says, but was initially denied entry, given incorrect directions and finally instructed to wait for USAF personnel to meet him. Air force officials then "arbitrarily marked" the proposal as received at 14:05, or five minutes after the mandatory deadline.

"Certain air force personnel may have intentionally delayed the messenger from delivering our proposal to create a pretext for refusing to consider it because they have political issues with our eastern European supplier," US Aerospace says in the filing.

The US company was virtually unknown in the aerospace industry before signing a joint venture with Antonov on 1 July to enter the KC-X competition.

Six days later, it requested a 60-day extension to the 9 July deadline, citing the USAF's previous decision to grant such a move for EADS NA. The air force denied its request.

:-k

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richelieu
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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 6 agosto 2010, 9:05

Il 'puzzle' delle scadenze .....
Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

KC-X Due Date: Nov. 10 vs Nov. 12 (updated)
Posted by Robert Wall at 8/5/2010 3:47 AM CDT

The Government Accountability Office has until November 10 to rule on the protest U.S. Aerospace has filed over being locked out of the KC-X tanker competition.

The protest was formally filed on August 2. The GAO can rule before then, and extensions are also possible, especially if further filings are made in the case, but November 10 currently is the due date for a ruling.

Still unclear is how the deadline may effect the other KC-X target date: November 12; that is when the Pentagon was expected to announce the winner of the source selection process, which currently pits EADS and its A330 against Boeing with its 767 offerings.

Clearly, should the GAO side with U.S. Aerospace, the November 12 target date would have to slip, and a source selection decision this year would appear all but impossible.

If the GAO rules against U.S. Aerospace, the exercise will have been a nice warm up act for the GAO protest that is likely to be filed by the losing bidder in KC-X.

Update:

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell says the source selection process has not been halted. He still believes in a contract award in the fall.

Also, as to claims from US Aerospace that the Air Force blocked their bid submission, Morrell says he's not heard that himself, but says the notion would be "absolutely absurd."


](*,)

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 6 agosto 2010, 9:18

Un affare da 'azzeccagarbugli' .....
Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

US Aerospace/Antonov: A Peek at the KC-X Protest
Posted by Amy Butler at 8/5/2010 1:58 PM CDT

The Government Accountability Office is now reviewing the Aug. 2 protest filed by US. Aerospace/Antonov.

The company is claiming it was unfairly shut out of the competition. And, the crux of this argument will likely boil down to the type of discussion that former President Bill Clinton had when he said "it depends on what the definition of 'is' is."

At issue is when USAF took control of the proposal documents submitted by U.S. Aerospace. All of the following detail was provide from an industry executive who wished to be anonymous due to the sensitivity of the issue.

The company claims its messenger, which was delivering the proposal was at the Wright-Patterson Area B gate before 1:30 p.m. July 9. The deadline was 2 p.m. that day.

According to the company, Air Force personnel at the gate "initially denied the messenger entry to the base, then gave incorrect direction to the 1755 Eleventh Street Building 570," where the proposal was headed. The messenger apparently became lost, and Air Force personnel told him to wait while they came to him.

By the time the papers reached their destination, the Air Force stamped the proposal as being received at 2:05 p.m.

U.S. Aerospace was notified July 22 via a letter from the Aeronautical Systems Center at Wright-Patt that the company's bid was late and would not be considered as part of the source selection.

So, one of the questions that is likely to be addressed as GAO reviews the protest is at what point the USAF had "control" over the proposal.

Was it when the messenger stepped onto the base? I'd suspect that when it comes to matters of security, the Air Force would say its personnel have control over all people on their bases. When it comes to a contracting matter, it may be different.

Apparently, Air Force officials subsequently told a company representative that delays at installation gates are common (and they are -- I've been subject to more than a few), and that the company should have anticipated this potential snag and planned appropriately.

But, the U.S. Aerospace argument is that Air Force personnel "intentionally delayed the messenger from delivering the proposal in order to create a pretext for refusing to consider it because they have political issues" with the principal supplier, Ukrainian state owned Antonov, according to the industry executive.

If this is proven to be true, it will bring the KC-X competition and the entire U.S. Air Force acquisition system to its knees after and already rough decade of missteps and scandals.

Another issue likely to arise during the review process is whether the Air Force was responsive to requests from U.S. Aerospace to the classified documents required to provide a fully compliant bid.

The U.S. Aerospace argument is that the Air Force took a week or more to provide the documentation required for the company to respond to its bid. The Air Force, however, has a rigid process for such communications and asked the company to resubmit its request through an official process channel. The net result was that the company had less time to review the materials and respond to the RFP.

On this matter, the Air Force is likely to argue that the processes for bidders are set -- as laid out in the FAR -- and the service is unable to budge from them.


UPDATE:

During an Aug. 5 press conference, Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell said it was "absolutely absurd" to think USAF personnel intentionally delayed the U.S. Aerospace messenger. He also noted that Boeing and EADS "went to great measures" to ensure their bids arrived on time. "Any professional contractor understands how hard and fast these deadlines are and go through extraordinary measures to get their proposals in on time," he said.

#-o

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richelieu
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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 6 agosto 2010, 9:29

Ma non è il primo caso di ritardo .....
Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

U.S. Aerospace Not the First Contractor To Be Accused of Tardiness
Posted by Amy Butler at 8/5/2010 2:30 PM CDT

The Government Accounting Office is now in the process of assessing the claims made against the Air Force by U.S. Aerospace, the would-be KC-X competitor who claims that service personnel delayed receipt of its proposal.

At issue is whether the team -- US Aerospace and Antonov -- got their bid for the $35 billion KC-X competition to the proper office at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, on time: 2 p.m. July 9.

The team says a messenger arrived more than 30 minutes prior to the deadline; the Air Force stamped the document as received at 2:05 p.m.

Surprisingly (to me, at least) there is a healthy body of case law on this issue, according to Ralph White, GAO's managing associate general counsel for procurement law. He says there are actually many cases reviewed for timeliness issues over the past 50 years the GAO has been handling protests.

So, this means there will be plenty of case law from which both sides can draw as they make their arguments on the matter
.

White also outlined the schedule for this protest. Significant deadlines (which, like KC-X cannot be slipped to the right) are:

*The U.S. Air Force has 30 calendar days to file its argument in response to the U.S. Aerospace protest. White says the Air Force can submit is response early if it wants to hasten the process.

*U.S. Aerospace then has 10 calendar days to file a response to the Air Force’s arguments.

*If a hearing is required, a date would be established thereafter.

*A resolution must be reached within 100 calendar days.

Alternatively, the two parties also have the option of entering into alternative methods of dispute resolution, such as a mediator. This, however, is unlikely given the high stakes of this protest.

Ho la netta impressione che ne vedremo delle belle .....

:-"

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 6 agosto 2010, 17:43

Ed ecco lo "AN-112KC" .....

..... e Bill Sweetman si dimostra alquanto perplesso (nonchè ironico) .....
Fonte: Ares
A Defense Technology Blog (AW&ST)

]An-112 Revealed
Posted by Bill Sweetman at 8/6/2010 7:04 AM CDT

Via "Secret Projects", details of the US Aerospace tanker proposal:

Immagine

A few small questions do arise. You're going to put 787 engines on a jet with two-thirds the TOW of the A330-200F? And with oversized engines and 50 feet less wingspan, you're expecting competitive efficiency?

The vertical tail and rudder, by the way, are still sized for the loss of 25 per cent power, not 50 per cent. That might have deleterious effects on your minimum control speed and take-off and landing performance.

Someone appears to have had the brilliant idea of attaching the boom to the upper part of the rear ramp-door, which is not only the only cargo door on the aircraft, but is in the only place where you can fit a cargo door.

And 300 troops in an aircraft that's a smidge bigger than an A400M? Maybe the 1st Airborne Hobbits.

Una fonte Ucraina .....

http://www.wing.com.ua/content/view/7600/38

I costi (secondo US Aerospace) .....

http://www.usaerospace.com/us-aerospace ... er-program

:wink:

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 24 febbraio 2011, 16:47

Questa discussione si era persa per strada .....
..... vediamo ora di aggiornarla .....

La decisione sembra imminente (forse domani) ma, anche in questo caso, ci si aspettano proteste .....
Fonte: AviationWeek.com

USAF KC-X Winner to Be Named Soon

By Amy Butler - ORLANDO, Fla. (Feb. 21, 2011)

The U.S. Air Force is planning to announce a winner for its KC-X aerial replacement tanker competition as soon as this week, according to numerous industry and military officials.

The service is expecting a protest from the losing bidder, and has prepared for this likely eventuality. The decade-long tanker replacement effort has been marred by scandal, bid protests, award reversal and, most recently, a data swap mishap that saw bidders receiving their competitor’s information. A decision could happen as soon as Friday, Feb. 25.

“We have assumed that there might be a protest,” Air Force Secretary Michael Donley says. “We have taken a lot of care and time … to document all of the necessary aspects of our source selection” to support a Government Accountability Office review. The congressional audit office acts as the referee in federal bid disputes, although it is up to executive-branch agencies to carry out any changes.

Boeing is proposing a version of the 767 while EADS is offering a modified Airbus A330. The source selection relies heavily upon the bidders’ prices, and up to 179 tankers will be purchased to begin replacing the aging KC-135.

A Northrop Grumman/EADS team won the last competition in 2008 (nearly three years after the last award), but a protest from Boeing prompted the Pentagon to stop work on that deal and start a new competition. Northrop abandoned EADS last year, and EADS stepped up with its own prime bid.

Boeing appears to be preparing for a loss, likely owing to an inability to beat EADS on price. An EADS win is viewed as critical by the company to greatly expand its footprint in the U.S. defense market, outside of helicopter work already under way.

Qui i links ad altri articoli sull'argomento apparsi recentemente sul sito di "Flight International" .....

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... ocess.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... sions.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... x-win.html

Non ci resta che attendere .....

:wink:

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da MarcoGT » 24 febbraio 2011, 16:57

In realtà in settimana ho letto che la decisione sarebbe stata presa oggi...mah :roll: :roll:

Attendiamo! :wink:

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 24 febbraio 2011, 17:43

In effetti il "New York Times" parla di "Thursday afternoon" .....

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/24/busin ... anker.html

..... e afferma che Boeing è preoccupata .....
Boeing’s supporters acknowledge that they are worried .....
OK ..... aspettiamo e vediamo .....

8)

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da albert » 25 febbraio 2011, 0:13

Chissa perché la scelta non mi ha sorpreso.... :roll: 8)

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/20 ... tract.html
"USAF selects Boeing for KC-X contract
By Stephen Trimble

Boeing has been selected to deliver 179 KC-767 New Gen Tankers to the US Air Force, but the final chapter may yet be unwritten in the long-running KC-X competition between Airbus and Boeing aircraft.

In awarding the $35 billion contract today, the USAF concluded after a seven-month evaluation that the KC-767 would be less expensive to buy and operate than EADS' proposed KC-45.

But the decision may still be challenged by the losing bidder. The USAF's attempt to award a contract three years ago after selecting the KC-45 was overturned by the Government Accountability Office (GAO), citing major inconsistencies between the evaluation criteria and the basis for contract award.

In the subsequent competition launched in September 2009, the USAF adopted a new acquisition strategy for the KC-X competition that emphasises the lowest price over "best value" to determine the winner.

The new strategy caused Northrop Grumman, which had previously led EADS' team, to withdraw from the competition, citing an unfair bidding process. EADS officials, however, decided to enter the competition as a prime contractor after the USAF issued a final request for proposals in March last year.

The USAF's acquisition process also was focused on running an error-free competition, but a critical mistake by the service's source selection team tarnished the process. On 1 November, the USAF discovered that it had mistakenly mailed a package containing evaluation documents to the wrong bidders, which ultimately allowed both competitors to know a preliminary evaluation score for the other team.

The KC-X contract process has been marred by serious errors ever since it began nearly 10 years ago. Two Boeing executives were sent to jail and the chief executive was fired over improprieties discovered when the USAF attempted to award a sole-source deal to lease 100 KC-767As in 2004."
Alberto
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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da MarcoGT » 25 febbraio 2011, 8:44

Non avevo dubbi! :roll:

Ma temo che non sia comunque finita qui...vedremo :wink:

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 25 febbraio 2011, 9:18

MarcoGT ha scritto:Non avevo dubbi! :roll:
Ma temo che non sia comunque finita qui...vedremo :wink:
E' vero ..... e nell'USAF se lo aspettano .....
..... ma, se le cose continueranno ad andare in questo modo, cioè a forza di ricorsi, quando mai riusciranno a mettere in linea questo benedetto tanker ?

:mrgreen:

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 25 febbraio 2011, 9:24

Aggiornamento da "flightglobal.com" .....
DATE: 24/02/11
SOURCE: Flightglobal.com [UPDATED]: USAF selects Boeing for KC-X contract

By Stephen Trimble

Boeing claimed the KC-X contract on 24 February by easily beating the price of EADS North America’s proposal, according to US Air Force officials.

The success of the proposal based on the KC-767 Next Gen Tanker, which is to be renamed the KC-46A, seemed at odds with widespread buzz that the EADS KC-45 had gained an edge over Boeing on price.

“We are ready to build the KC-46A tanker now,” Dennis Muilenberg, chief executive of Boeing’s defence and space business, told reporters after the announcement.


Immagine ©Boeing
Within one award after winning the KC-X contract, Boeing released a new concept image showing the newly-awarded KC-46A refuelling a Boeing B-1B bomber.

Boeing’s actual offer came in lower than its competitor by more than 1%, or at least about $330 million, says Michael Donley, secretary of the air force.
That allowed the air force’s evaluation team to bypass a set of 96 non-mandatory requirements that would only have been triggered if there was less than a 1% differential between the two bids, Donley says.

The air force’s decision was met with “disappointment and concern” by EADS, which previously defeated a Boeing bid for the same contract in 2008. That award was later overturned after Boeing protested the outcome.

The USAF relaunched the competition in September, 2009 with a new acquisition strategy that forced the competitors into a pricing war.

EADS says its review of the air force’s decision “will take some time”. The KC-X bid offered the company an opportunity to establish a new manufacturing base in Mobile, Alabama, as well as forge a network of suppliers across the country. “We owe it to them to conduct a thorough analysis,” says EADS chairman Ralph Crosby.

Donley urged the losing bidder to respect the air force’s decision and allow the process to move forward.

“We hope that all parties recognise the thorough process and intense, multiple levels of review that have gone into this source selection and will respect this opinion and allow this important procurement to proceed unimpeded,” Donley says.

It is clear that Boeing had several advantages on price by offering the KC-767. The KC-45’s maximum takeoff weight is more than 25% heavier than the KC-767, and extra weight usually implies more cost to build.

Moreover, as a smaller aircraft the KC-767 is expected to burn less fuel in absolute terms. Rep Norm Dicks, a Washington-based Democrat, helped to improve this advantage by successfully pressing the USAF to increase the lifecycle measure for fuel burn from 30 years to 40 years.

“I think that’s an important part of the overall equation,” Muilenberg says.

However, EADS officials had become increasingly confident that the KC-45 would be competitive with Boeing's pricing on the KC-767. Last week, Crosby told reporters that he considered price an "opportunity" for EADS to win in the competition. He also indicated that EADS would protest only if the company discovered a signficant discrepancy between the evaluation criteria and the basis for contract award.

The air force intends to finalise a $3.5 billion contract to complete a system development and demonstration phase, which includes delivering four test aircraft. Boeing is required to deliver the first 18 KC-46As to enter service within six years of contract award. The production phase spans over 13 years for building all 179 aircraft.

Meanwhile, Boeing has confirmed that first flight is scheduled in 2015.

It remains unclear how much risk Boeing has accepted to meet the KC-X contract requirements. The company has never disclosed the exact configuration of the KC-767 New Gen Tanker airframe, nor its refuelling systems.

“We won’t be rolling out any of those” details in the near future, Muilenberg says.

The air force has been seeking to award a contract to replace its aging Boeing KC-135s for most of the last decade.

“I’m pleased at how this produced an outcome … that we will get about delivering a capability that’s long overdue,” Gen Norton Schwartz, chief of staff of the air force, “and we’ll stop talking about it.”

Ultima modifica di richelieu il 25 febbraio 2011, 9:32, modificato 1 volta in totale.

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 25 febbraio 2011, 9:29

Prime informazioni da "AW&ST" .....
Fonte: AviationWeek.com (Feb. 24, 2011)

Boeing Wins Restaged U.S. Air Force KC-X

By Graham Warwick (Washington)

Overturning its previous selection, the U.S. Air Force has selected Boeing to supply its KC-X replacement aerial-refueling tanker. The company has been awarded a $3.5 billion fixed-price incentive contract for development and delivery of the first 18 of a planned 179 767-based NewGen tankers to replace U.S. Air Force Boeing KC-135s.

EADS North America, with Northrop Grumman as prime contractor, won the first KC-X competition in February 2008 with the KC-45A, based on the Airbus A330-200 and similar to the KC-30 multi-role tanker/transport under development for Australia. The program was halted in September 2008 after a Boeing contract protest was upheld.

The Air Force restarted the KC-X competition in July 2010, issuing a new request for proposals (RFP) that simplified the requirements, clarified the selection criteria and reduced the financial risks to the winner. The changes were made in a bid to prevent the protests that derailed the first competition.

Boeing revised its approach after losing the first competition, dropping plans to develop an aircraft combining elements of several different 767 models and basing its “NewGen” tanker bid on a 767-200 equipped with an upgraded KC-10 refueling boom and 787 cockpit displays. The company said its price would be lower the second time around.

EADS North America stayed with its winning KC-45 design, but entered the new competition as prime contractor after Northrop withdrew from the role in March 2010, arguing the revised RFP “clearly favored a smaller tanker.” EADS’s decision to lead the bid itself likely allowed the company to reduce its proposal price.

The Air Force substantially revamped its source selection process after the Government Accountability Office (GAO) upheld Boeing’s protest over losing the 2008 competition to Northrop Grumman and EADS. The GAO ruled the Air Force did not properly assess the relative technical and operational merits of the rival tankers.

The new RFP simplified the specification to 372 mandatory pass/fail requirements the proposals had to meet to be considered. Proposed prices were then adjusted by the Pentagon based on assessments of operational effectiveness and ownership cost. Only if the resulting total evaluated prices were within 1% of each other would the Pentagon then consider each proposal’s ability to provide additional capabilities.

A long-shot bid from U.S. Aerospace, offering a variant of the Ukrainian Antonov An-70, was rejected after it missed the deadline to submit a proposal. The company’s protest was dismissed by the GAO in November 2010.


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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da AlphaSierra » 25 febbraio 2011, 10:14

Ora magari saltano su con l'american pride....che pagliacci!

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da SuperMau » 25 febbraio 2011, 10:31

Penso che, se sono furbi, gli americani se ne staranno belli tranquilli senza spandere troppo...... hanno vinto (al netto della revisione finale EADS) adesso devono costruirlo e consegnarlo. Vediamo, sara' interessante.

Peccato per la nostra Aeronautica....visto che Boeing ha vinto il contratto, e deve quanto prima consegnare 4 aerei "di test", mi sa che il tanker giu' a Pratica rimarra' solo ancora per un bel po'.....

Ciao
M.
Be'....sono andato un po' in giro...
Immagine

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 25 febbraio 2011, 14:18

Non sarà che per la nostra industria potrebbe ripresentarsi la possibilità di recuperare parte del lavoro che avrebbe dovuto svolgere nell'ambito del programma KC-767A?

:wink:

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da SuperMau » 25 febbraio 2011, 14:39

richelieu ha scritto:Non sarà che per la nostra industria potrebbe ripresentarsi la possibilità di recuperare parte del lavoro che avrebbe dovuto svolgere nell'ambito del programma KC-767A?
:wink:
mah, teoricamente potrebbe essere, soprattutto per Alenia Napoli e Grottaglie.
Ci sono pero' un sacco di punti interrogativi, soprattutto a Grottaglie dopo il casino sul 787, perche' mi sa che non ce la fanno a tenere una produzione sostenuta per fare tutti e due i modelli (spero comunque di sbagliarmi).
Qui sta a Boeing decidere cosa fare...suddividere il lavoro per farlo andare piu' spedito (ma sono capaci di evitare la 787-debacle?), o tenere tutto in casa.

IO non penso che Boeing sia in una posizione cosi di lusso. Deve certificare 3 aerei, e deve consegnare 18 tanker (di cui praticamente nessuno ancora costruito secondo le specifiche della gara) entro 6 anni.

Mah... come si dice, onore ai vincitori, e speriamo non mettano la gamba fino in fondo (e anche se la mettono, come dice AlphaSierra, tireranno fuori la storia del "Buy American")...

"We have a dream..." right?

Ciao
M.
Be'....sono andato un po' in giro...
Immagine

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 25 febbraio 2011, 14:45

Ulteriori informazioni da "AW&ST" .....
Fonte: AviationWeek.com (Feb. 25, 2011)

Boeing The Clear Winner Of KC-X, U.S. Air Force Says

By Graham Warwick

Additional capabilities beyond the mandatory requirements were not a factor in the U.S. Air Force’s selection of Boeing’s 767-based tanker, now designated the KC-46A, as the service’s KC-X replacement aerial refueler, Pentagon officials said late Feb. 24.

EADS North America’s larger Airbus A330-based KC-45A, winner of the previous KC-X competition, was the losing bidder. Officials announced the Boeing award shortly after 5 p.m. EST in Washington.

Additional “non-mandatory” requirements were only to be considered if the evaluated prices of the two proposals were within 1% of each other. “Both offerors met the mandatory requirements, and there was a greater than 1% difference in total price, so non-mandatory capabilities were evaluated, but not used in the source-selection,” Air Force Secretary Michael Donley says.

“Boeing was the clear winner,” says Deputy Defense Secretary William Lynn. Under the revised source-selection criteria for the restaged KC-X competition, the price proposed by each bidder was adjusted by the Pentagon based on assessments of fleet mission effectiveness and lifecycle cost. Boeing argued its smaller 767-based tanker would consume substantially less fuel.

Boeing has been awarded a $3.5 billion fixed-price incentive contract for engineering and manufacturing development and delivery of the first 18 aircraft by 2017. When Northrop Grumman/EADS North America won an earlier KC-X competition in February 2008 it was awarded a $1.5 billion development contract, including four aircraft. “This was a completely different competition,” Donley says.

The Air Force restarted the KC-X competition in July 2010, issuing a new request for proposals (RFP) that simplified the requirements, clarified the selection criteria and reduced the financial risks to the winner. The changes were made in a bid to prevent the protests that derailed the first competition.

Boeing revised its approach after losing the first competition, dropping plans to develop an aircraft combining elements of several different 767 models and basing its “NewGen” tanker bid on a 767-200 equipped with an upgraded KC-10 refueling boom and 787 cockpit displays. The company said its price would be lower the second time around.

EADS North America stayed with its winning KC-45 design, but entered the new competition as prime contractor after Northrop withdrew from the role in March 2010, arguing the revised RFP “clearly favored a smaller tanker.” EADS’ decision to lead the bid itself likely allowed the company to reduce its proposal price.

Following the protests that dogged previous attempts to buy new tankers, as well as major criticism of the Air Force’s acquisition process, Donley says the seven-month source-selection has generated an “extensive official record” of the procedures followed. The bidders had a good understanding how the evaluation was conducted, he says, clearly anxious to avoid a protest or congressional challenge this time around.

Still, the latest competition was already marred by an embarrassing data-swap mishap last fall. In the Nov. 1, 2010, data release, Air Force officials sent files containing interim Integrated Fleet Aerial Refueling Assessment (Ifara) information to the wrong industry teams. However, in an effort to level the playing field, USAF then released to both contractors the cover sheets outlining each bidder’s performance in the Ifara model so both sides now officially have the same information (Aerospace DAILY, Feb. 11).

Senate Armed Services ranking Republican John McCain (Ariz.) let it be known right after the new award was announced that he awaits the Air Force’s award explanation. “I look forward to the Air Force demonstrating over the next few weeks how today’s decision was made fairly, openly and transparently,” says the senator, who helped derail Boeing’s last tanker award by exposing Air Force and Boeing malfeasance. “Only such a process will ensure that we obtain the most capable aerial refueling tanker at the most reasonable cost.”


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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da butterfly » 25 febbraio 2011, 15:26

Ragazzi qui non si tratta di American Pride o millantato tale qui si parla di soldi e di salvaguardare la loro economia e non in modo cosi subdolo come si crede.
E' tutto chiaro e alla luce del sole, qui esistono campagne fatte alla luce del sole (ribadisco) di sensibilizzazione (ad esempio verso i dipendenti delle industrie) per inviare lettere e fare pressioni ciascuno sul proprio Senatore affinche' si voti per questo o per quello.
E voi cosa credete che uno che lavori per Boeing o per GE non si metta a far pressione sul proprio senatore e mobiliti chiunque a farlo se si tratta del proprio posto di lavoro?
Qui si sono aperte pagine di supporto ai vari programmi (vedi F-35) su Facebook!!!!
Qui non si tratta di giochi nascosti, qui ci sono campagne di "sensibilizzazione" pubbliche, perche' qui e' legale farlo e la politica delle lobby e' sotto gli occhi di tutti.
Se sia giusto o no non sta a me dirlo ma a volte prima di sparare a zero su una cultura la si dovrebbe conoscere un pelino di piu'.
Qui e' legale farlo e loro lo fanno!
Capisco che ci possa fare schifo ma se fosse legale sono certa che lo faremmo anche noi.
La morte non sta nel non comunicare, ma nel non poter essere più compresi (Pier Paolo Pasolini)

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 25 febbraio 2011, 16:17

Parole chiare ..... però .....
Se sia giusto o no non sta a me dirlo ma a volte prima di sparare a zero su una cultura la si dovrebbe conoscere un pelino di piu'.
Qui e' legale farlo e loro lo fanno!
Capisco che ci possa fare schifo ma se fosse legale sono certa che lo faremmo anche noi.

..... però il sistema delle "lobbies" potrebbe portare a situazioni di "autarchia" e, conseguentemente, alla selezione di prodotti di qualità inferiore a quella di altri analoghi disponibili sul mercato .....

:wink:

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da butterfly » 25 febbraio 2011, 16:21

richelieu ha scritto:Parole chiare ..... però .....
..... però il sistema delle "lobbies" potrebbe portare a situazioni di "autarchia" e, conseguentemente, alla selezione di prodotti di qualità inferiore a quella di altri analoghi disponibili sul mercato .....

:wink:
Concordo con te che si rischia questo e non e' di certo un bene e soprattutto e' un modo non corretto di "drogare" il libero mercato.
Ma io e te poco ci possiamo fare.
La morte non sta nel non comunicare, ma nel non poter essere più compresi (Pier Paolo Pasolini)

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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da SuperMau » 25 febbraio 2011, 16:57

Dani,

E' stata fatta lobby a tutti i livelli per fare in modo che Boeing vinca, ma soprattutto e' stata invalidata la scelta precedente. Questo e' il problema principale. Tutti hanno tirato acqua al proprio mulino e quando non bastava si sono aggiustate le cose in modo che andasse come doveva.

Chiaro, per te e' importante questo risultato visto i progetti direttamente collegati che ti toccano, cosi come era importante per me se vinceva Airbus per la stessa maniera...forse anche di piu' essendo fornitore diretto di Airbus Military per Il 330MRTT.

Come detto, onore al merito dei vincitori. E spero proprio che non facciano la fine a-la-787. Altrimenti si dobbiamo chiederci quanto pilotate sono questo tipo di gare.

In ogni caso guarda che il programma di offset del 330 era molto, molto piu' ampio del 767. Quindi in soldoni, la ricaduta lavorativa sul territorio americano era forse anche piu' grande di quanto non sia adesso.

Per GE non lo so, il 330 monta PW o RR ma puo' anche darsi che potevano adattare il CF60 per mantenere l'offset....questo non ti posso dire.

Comunque vediamo. Io la vedo un po' diversa, ma se metti tutto insieme (elicotteri Augusta-Sikorsky per la Casa Bianca, 767 dell'Aeronautica Italiana), gli americani non fanno in totale una bella figura...'.

Aspetto in ogni caso l'indagine approfondita di EADS. Li forse si potranno chiarire i particolari.

CIao
M.
Be'....sono andato un po' in giro...
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sochmer
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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da sochmer » 25 febbraio 2011, 18:15

lo devo dire....

quanto ca.....spita è fi.....bello :mrgreen: il 767 con le winglet :mrgreen: :drunken:
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JT8D
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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da JT8D » 25 febbraio 2011, 19:11

"La corsa di decollo è una metamorfosi, ecco una quantità di metallo che si trasforma in aeroplano per mezzo dell'aria. Ogni corsa di decollo è la nascita di un aeroplano" (Staccando l'ombra da terra - D. Del Giudice)


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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da richelieu » 27 febbraio 2011, 10:41

EADS North America officials today expressed disappointment and concern over the announcement by the U.S. Air Force that it had selected a high-risk, concept aircraft over the proven, more capable KC-45 for the nation's next aerial refueling tanker.
Con queste parole si apre il comunicato stampa col quale EADS ha espresso il proprio disappunto in merito alla scelta di Boeing quale "winner" della competizione "KC-X" .....

Il testo completo .....

http://www.kc45now.com/news-press-relea ... 4-2011.asp


Al tempo stesso, in un comunicato contrapposto, Boeing ha anche rilasciato un video .....
The U.S. Air Force announced Thursday that it has selected Boeing’s NewGen Tanker to be its new KC-46A air refueling jet.
The contract award, which follows a rigorous Air Force review of industry proposals, means Boeing will build the next-generation tanker that will replace 179 of the service’s 1950s-era KC-135s.
http://www.boeing.com/Features/2011/02/ ... 24_11.html

:wink:

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SuperMau
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Re: KC-X ..... è proprio una telenovela .....

Messaggio da SuperMau » 27 febbraio 2011, 11:35

richelieu ha scritto: Con queste parole si apre il comunicato stampa col quale EADS ha espresso il proprio disappunto in merito alla scelta di Boeing quale "winner" della competizione "KC-X" .....
Io aggiugerei questo pezzo :

"With a program of such complexity, our review of today's decision will take some time," Crosby said. "There are more than 48,000 Americans who are eager to build the KC-45 here in the U.S., and we owe it to them to conduct a thorough analysis."
sul quale concordo...Onore ai vincitori, ma aspettiamo il risultato dell'analisi
richelieu ha scritto: Al tempo stesso, in un comunicato contrapposto, Boeing ha anche rilasciato un video .....
BELLISSIMO !!!! Quando Hollywood si mette d'impegno le cose le sanno fare ! Non vedevo della CG cosi precisa dai tempi di Guerre Stellari !

Alla fine della fiera, Richelieu, io faccio il cinese......mi siedo sulla riva del fiume e aspetto...e vediamo.

Ciao
Thank you for sharing!
M.
Be'....sono andato un po' in giro...
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